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According to Glen Brown, “One of the greatest things about Andorra is that the country is outside the EU and this is why you get duty free. This means when you need to do your 90 days out of the Schengen zone you can do those 90 days in Andorra if you wanted to and then slip back into the Schengen zone for another 90 days again.”

I am suspicious that there is some detail that Mr. Brown has overlooked.  I read elsewhere that Andorra had agreements with both Spain and France to not let in anyone who isn’t legally authorized to be in those countries. I’ve also read a claim that Andorra allows a tourist 183 days and another saying it is only ninety.  An actual residence permit has a set of financial requirements much higher than that of Spain.

Would it actually be legal to alternate between Andorra and France or Spain?

If Andorra limits one to ninety days, and measures it the same way Schengen does, then I think it wouldn’t work, because the day you cross the border counts for both.

Related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Schengen_Area#How_many_micro_states?

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  • Possible duplicate of: travel.stackexchange.com/questions/68836/…
    – JonathanReez ♦
    Commented Aug 12, 2022 at 2:15
  • Note that Glenn Brown is talking about living in Andorra. He's not talking about just visiting Andorra for 90 days.
    – DJClayworth
    Commented Jul 13, 2023 at 14:50
  • @DJClayworth. True. But since Andorra is not part of Schengen, that raises the question whether Andorra is of the class that requires a visa or the class that is 90/180 visa-exempt. I see no practical detail distinguishing Andorra from Monaco, San Marino, & Vatican, yet several sources mention them and omit Andorra as "de facto" part of Schengen.
    – WGroleau
    Commented Jul 13, 2023 at 16:38
  • @WGroleau Unless you are an Andorran citizen (as opposed to resident) that is not going to make any difference. I would be astonished if Andorran citizens aren't given free access to Schengen.
    – DJClayworth
    Commented Jul 13, 2023 at 18:08
  • @DJClayworth For short term visits, citizens of Andorra, Monaco and San Marino are treated as EU citizens insofar as their documents are not stamped (Article 11(3)(e) Schengen Border Code). For long term residence a residence permit may be required depending on the national law.
    – Mark Johnson
    Commented Jul 13, 2023 at 18:36

2 Answers 2

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Would it actually be legal to alternate between Andorra and France or Spain?

Yes, on condition that when entering Andorra you have a Schengen Area exit stamp and when leaving Andorra have a Schengen Area entry stamp.

As far as the Schengen Border Code, is concerned, it is the proper entry/exit stamps that counts (assuming you don't require a visa) for short term stays.

Without the entry/exit stamps you are assumed to have overstayed (Article 12 (1,4)), unless you can prove otherwise (Article 12 (2)).

Schengen Border Code
Article 12
Presumption as regards fulfilment of conditions of duration of stay
(1) If the travel document of a third-country national does not bear an entry stamp, the competent national authorities may presume that the holder does not fulfil, or no longer fulfils, the conditions of duration of stay applicable within the Member State concerned.
(2) The presumption referred to in paragraph 1 may be rebutted where the third-country national provides, by any means, credible evidence, such as transport tickets or proof of his or her presence outside the territory of the Member States, that he or she has respected the conditions relating to the duration of a short stay.
...
(4) The relevant provisions of paragraphs 1 and 2 shall apply mutatis mutandis in the absence of an exit stamp.

Sources:

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  • I edited a caveat into the question that might be an obstacle. Ninety days each might still be a Schengen problem because each transfer day counts for both.
    – WGroleau
    Commented Aug 12, 2022 at 0:44
  • @WGroleau There is no reason to believe that that is the case (without an Andorian law source hard to say for sure). With Romania and Bulgaria it is not the case.
    – Mark Johnson
    Commented Aug 12, 2022 at 0:50
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    @WGroleau Physical presence IS officially the deciding factor: says who? What is your source? I have added the relavent portions of the Schengen Border Code Article 12 that states the exact opposite.
    – Mark Johnson
    Commented Aug 12, 2022 at 6:12
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    It says "may presume …" Presume what? Physical presence. And then it offers the option of proving that presence in other ways. Which is exactly what I did when Spain falsely claimed I had been in Schengen fifteen months. (Ironically, I later realized that the exit stamp they had missed was completely legible.)
    – WGroleau
    Commented Aug 12, 2022 at 16:48
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    @MarkJohnson Regarding Article 12: If you had read and understood what you are quoting instead of emphasizing sentence fragments, which alone and taken out of context are meaningless, you wuld have realized that WGroleau is right. Without stamps, the authorities 'may presume' that the conditions for stay are not fulfilled, but the traveller can 'by any means' prove that he has been outside the Schengen area even if stamps are missing.
    – Tor-Einar Jarnbjo
    Commented Aug 12, 2022 at 17:35
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Although Andorra’s agreements with France and Spain make it effectively part of Schengen, this can (allegedly) be avoided by requesting entry and exit stamps at the border.  I’m skeptical, due to the near impossibility of being able to prove one spent all the claimed time (ninety days) within Andorra’s borders.  Since checks aren't generally done at Andorra's borders, it would be easy to get a stamp at the Spanish border control site, immediately leave at another site, and reverse the procedure 90+ days later.  Of course, that would be illegal and would present a (small) risk of being caught—a Spanish official might look through your passport and see that you entered Andorra but don't have an exit stamp.

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  • And who’s going to believe that you didn't pull that trick? Find a security camera in Andorra, and sit in front of it for the entire ninety days?
    – WGroleau
    Commented Apr 24, 2023 at 17:42
  • The most important element here is not Andorran border enforcement, however, but French and Spanish border enforcement. If the traveler has a Schengen exit stamp, it does not matter whether there is an Andorran entry stamp, and if there is a Schengen entry stamp, an Andorran exit stamp is similarly unnecessary. "would be easy to get a stamp at the Spanish border control site, immediately leave at another site": wouldn't Spain or France inspect the traveler and stamp the passport on re-entry into the Schengen area?
    – phoog
    Commented Apr 24, 2023 at 20:40
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    Presumed guilty until proven innocent then?
    – hippietrail
    Commented Apr 25, 2023 at 10:43
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    @hippietrail I believe that the burden of proof would lie with the state. That is, if someone has stamps showing a departure from Spain or France into Andorra and a return 91 days later, the border authorities would not be able to impose a penalty without evidence of an undocumented crossing of the border in the meanwhile. The fact that it would be easy to do this isn't evidence that the traveler actually did it. The presumption is that the stamps are correct and the burden of proof lies with the person claiming that they are not (whether the claim is of guilt or innocence).
    – phoog
    Commented Apr 25, 2023 at 11:21
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    The burden of proof would lie with the state for prosecuting you as a criminal. However the state may decline to admit anyone for any reason they feel like. So while you might avoid criminal charges you would probably end up being barred from Schengen if they suspected you had done this.
    – DJClayworth
    Commented Jul 13, 2023 at 14:29

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