Timeline for Traveling within Schengen area with a French resident card
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
24 events
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| Jun 16, 2020 at 10:18 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
Commonmark migration
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| Feb 26, 2020 at 17:32 | comment | added | phoog | Let us continue this discussion in chat. | |
| Feb 26, 2020 at 17:32 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | I would like to point out that the original question is: Traveling within Schengen area with a resident card, to which I answered no - you must also have a valid passport. If you have complaints about the wording of the European Commission site that defines what a valid traveling document is, you should complain to them. I just agree with their interpretation. | |
| Feb 26, 2020 at 17:23 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | @phoog Where in the Schengen Border Code does it state that Article 6 (1)(a)(i) does not apply for residence permit holders visiting other Schengen Countries? In your original answer I do not see such a statement. | |
| Feb 26, 2020 at 17:16 | comment | added | phoog | @MarkJohnson I am giving a source: the Schengen Borders Code. Why don't you try TIMATIC or your favorite online travel document checking service, such as iatatravelcentre.com/…. These reflect the fact that the three-month validity rule does not apply to Schengen residence permit holders. | |
| Feb 26, 2020 at 17:15 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | Good catch about article 6(5)(a). Add that to your clarification request. Just as the case in Poland, that allows US Citizens to remain longer - but must exit Poland directly (i. e. not through another Schengen Coubtry), the same would apply. | |
| Feb 26, 2020 at 17:10 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | @phoog At least I am giving a source, you are not. The German law, that uses Article 6, determining what the validity foreigners passport must be to enter Germany contritics your claim. | |
| Feb 26, 2020 at 17:02 | comment | added | phoog | @MarkJohnson your reliance on Travel documents for non-EU nationals – Your Europe - Your Europe contradicts your earlier comment that criticizes "relying on a FAQ that give no source for their claims." FAQ and other public information pages often address a problem in a specific context and make statements that are incorrect in other contexts. That page is an example. | |
| Feb 26, 2020 at 16:58 | comment | added | phoog | @MarkJohnson article 6(5)(a) says nothing about transit while leaving the Schengen area. That makes sense because article 6 concerns entering the territory of Schengen states through the external border. Article 6(2) similarly concerns the application of the 90/180 rule to residence permit holders who enter the territory of a Schengen state (other than the one issuing the permit) through the external border. It's the only explanation, for example, for the lack of any explicit discussion of the conditions for remaining in a country's territory. | |
| Feb 26, 2020 at 16:55 | comment | added | xngtng | @MarkJohnson Art. 6(5)(a) only explicitly allows entry for the purpose of transit to the issuing State. | |
| Feb 26, 2020 at 16:55 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | @phoog The wording of Travel documents for non-EU nationals – Your Europe - Your Europe contradicts your assumption the the title alone invalidates the usage for the borders and national laws of the countries within the Schengen Area. | |
| Feb 26, 2020 at 16:45 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | @phoog As for the case of would not be allowed (technically) to transit through other Schengen countries to leave Schengen? Artical 6 (5)(a) allows this just as Artical 6 (2) deals with the 90/180 days rule for residence permit holders, which contradicts the claim: It does not apply to crossing internal borders, because such border crossings do not constitute entry into Schengen territory. | |
| Feb 26, 2020 at 16:42 | comment | added | phoog | @MarkJohnson my source for the claim that Article 6 applies only to those crossing the external border is the fact that Article 6 is a component of Title II, External Borders. | |
| Feb 26, 2020 at 16:25 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | @phoog Correct link: AufenthG § 15 (2)(3) | |
| Feb 26, 2020 at 16:05 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | I am only quoting the existing laws that define these regulations (where as you are relying on a FAQ that give no source for their claims). As for the contacting: Good, that the way it should be. Many statements given are to vague and only lead to confusion. | |
| Feb 26, 2020 at 16:01 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | @phoog The German residence law [AufenthG § 15 (2)(3)][10] quotes Article 6 of the Schengen Border Code directly as a reason for Refusal of entry. The wording of the European Commission site also contradicts your claim that it only for enteribg Schengen Countries, for which you have not given a verifiable source. | |
| Feb 26, 2020 at 15:39 | comment | added | phoog | @MarkJohnson "The SBC does not specify anywhere that Article 6 (1)(a)(i) does not apply for residence permit holders visiting other Schengen Countries": the SBC lays out conditions for entering the Schengen territory. It does not apply to crossing internal borders, because such border crossings do not constitute entry into Schengen territory. | |
| Feb 26, 2020 at 15:39 | comment | added | xngtng | @MarkJohnson So if a third-country national has less than three months of validity left on their passport, they would not be allowed (technically) to transit through other Schengen countries to leave Schengen? (Just to clarify the situation a bit more. I have also contacted the Europe Commission for clarification) | |
| Feb 26, 2020 at 15:25 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | 90+90=180 days=6 months - the passport in your sample would still have 30 months left after leaving Germany and returning to Switzerland. Outside of Switzerland the 90/180 days rule applies. Read the European Commission site. For travel within the EU... three months after the EU country you are visiting. (You have hopefully noted I didn't downvote your answer because I think that your source is incorrect) | |
| Feb 26, 2020 at 15:17 | comment | added | xngtng | @MarkJohnson But their passport would not be valid three months after their intended date of departure from the Schengen area (supposedly when their permit expires). | |
| Feb 26, 2020 at 15:12 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | No, since the person would be allowed in for 90 days on that visit. The Swiss law, German law or Schengen Border Code doo not confirm the Swiss FAQ. | |
| Feb 26, 2020 at 14:56 | comment | added | xngtng | @MarkJohnson A literal interpretation is impossible/absurd in the case because Article 6 requires validity of three months after the intended departure from the Schengen Area ("the territory of the Member States"). Would a third-country national holding a Swiss residence permit valid for five years be forbidden to enter Germany if their passport has three years of validity left? | |
| Feb 26, 2020 at 14:36 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | For Germany, the FAQ information quoted here is not correct. A reason for a Refusal of entry is that Article 6 of the Schengen Border Code (SBC) is not fulfilled. The SBC does not specify anywhere that Article 6 (1)(a)(i) does not apply for residence permit holders visiting other Schengen Countries. Article 7 (Grenzübertritt und Grenzkontrollen) of the Swiss law (Ausländer- und Integrationsgesetz, AIG) refers only to the Schengen Agreements. | |
| Feb 26, 2020 at 10:36 | history | answered | xngtng | CC BY-SA 4.0 |