Hot answers tagged

159

If you strip away all the misdirection, the airline's denial can be paraphrased as: An inspection was conducted. The aircraft passed the inspection. and This was an extraordinary circumstance. If for this airline, having its planes pass inspections without finding failures is extraordinary, that surely is not a fact they should like to advertise. I ...


149

The refusal is logically fallacious, and it misrepresents the Van der Lans case on which it relies. Let's pick it apart: Misleading claim about the case They claim that the Van der Lans decision holds that "a technical error which results in the replacement of a component can be considered to be within the airline's control and thus give the right to ...


45

IANAL, but my understanding of the situation is that they're using some really selective and literal reading of the van der Lans judgment to try to make you go away. As the EU website on passenger rights suggests, it's probably a good time to complain to the relevant national authority. They should then advise you on how to proceed further. The ruling in ...


40

The courts (up to and including the European Court of Justice, which has the final say) have followed a slightly zig-zagging course in interpreting the "extraordinary circumstances" concept, so it is not possible to predict with 100% certainty how they'd deal with a case such as this where there's no explicit precedent. The best one can say is that the ECJ ...


17

I'm assuming both flights are on the same ticket. (If they were not, you're out of luck, and in fact you were lucky to be rebooked on a later flight at all). You're barking up a slightly wrong tree by going to the Swiss national enforcement body. Since both the airline and your point of departure are Polish, it would more relevant for the Polish enforcement ...


16

There is nothing in the EU regulation, wich requires airlines to make sure that passengers who have booked together also can travel together. There is also in no EU country any law or regulation requiring a 17 year old to be under uninterrupted supervision of a parent or legal guardian. Many of the larger European airlines allow children of age 12 or older ...


16

Airlines routinely attempt to get out of their payments, and attempting to make people go away with a form letter, even if it is completely fabricated nonsense, is so cheap that you can count on them trying. Heck, if one or two people go away after such a letter, it has already paid for itself. I used to be a frequent flyer and I've had my share of delays, ...


13

It is very unfortunate that the airlines are refusing the compensation by using different tricks. The case will be finalized as soon as we have received all the necessary information. So please don`t give your bank information to the airline because in that case you are accepting the offer they have made to you i.e. you are accepting NOK 418. ...


11

Historically most non-EU airlines have claimed that EU261 did not apply in situations like you've described due to the delay not occurring within the EU, and the legislation itself wasn't clear on whether these type of delays were covered or not. This changed in May of 2018 when the European Court of Justice ruled in "Wegener v Royal Air Maroc" and stated ...


10

As a crewmember, I can explain why I think this is an "extraordinary circumstances". Crewmembers, especially flight deck crew, while on duty (this includes the time they spent at a destination) is controlled by many rules when it comes to "rest", how long they need to sleep and when can they drink alcohol, etc. Even rules regarding diving and skydiving are ...


9

You can try contacting the national enforcement body in the EU country of your departure to hear if they can help. But even if they ultimately agree that it looks like foul play, they can't force the airline to pay out. At the end of the day, your recourse is indeed to file a civil lawsuit. Since there appears to be a dispute about facts, you will most ...


9

Yes, the relevant distance is the straight line (that is, the "great-circle distance") directly from your point of departure to your final destination. This was ruled by the European Court of Justice in Bossen v Brussels Airlines from 2017.


8

Whilst Norway is not a member of the European Union, they are part of a Bilateral Agreement with the EU regarding air transportation. As a result of this, EU261 DOES apply to Norwegian airlines. This can be confirmed on the main EU Air Passenger Rights website, which states : EU means the 28 EU countries , including Guadeloupe, French Guiana, ...


8

It turns out this question is actually addressed in Sturgeon v. Condor, the case cited in the aforementioned answer: It is important to point out that the compensation payable to a passenger under Article 7(1) of Regulation No 261/2004 may be reduced by 50% if the conditions laid down in Article 7(2) of the regulation are met. Even though the latter ...


8

There are many specific rules which will vary based on at least: the country where the property or airline is based the point of departure or the destination of the flight the country where you reside the original cancellation terms of the booking whether you bought flights and hotels separately or not who you bought the flights and/or hotel from whether ...


7

The most effective path of action may be to delegate your claim to specialized agencies. They know all the tricks used by air companies to refuse compensation, they have access to flight databases which list real causes of delays, they fully know EU261 and can launch legal action if needed. In exchange they pay themselves on a percentage (about 30%) of what ...


7

I would argue the following basis , and ignore completely the case they quote (which has been addressed in other answers): The airline has claimed that it undertook an inspection, but that the fact nothing was in fact found to be wrong, causes this to be exceptional and outside their control. However, a responsible proactive safety conscious airline, ...


6

You are covered by both the 'Right to care' and 'Compensation' sections of EU261, due to the fact the airline you were flying was an EU carrier - and all EU carriers are covered by EU261 regardless of where the flight is to/from. 'Right of care' means that regardless of the reason for the delay they are required to provide you with accommodation, ...


6

Regulation EC261 applies only to flights: departing from the EU or with a destination in the EU, operated by an EU carrier So you're not entitled to any compensation (or to the duty of care) under those regulations. If your flight had departed from the EU or had been operated by a EU carrier, yes, the whole trip would have counted, and the delay at the ...


6

All airlines will have their own policy on exactly how the refund/compensation process is handled. If you want a real firm answer, see the policies of your chosen airline for details and contact them to clear up any questions you still have after doing so. But having said that, what you're asking about is extremely unlikely to differ between airlines. This ...


4

In my opinion it is worth pursuing, although you might have to go to court to claim your compensation. It is common for airlines to claim anything and everything is beyond their control, but so far the courts seem to be disagreeing with them rather steadily. Here the cause of the delay was with how the luggage was stored. The way airlines store the luggage ...


4

Yes. Multi-leg flights are considered as if they were a single flight, and only the arrival time at the final destination counts. Note that this is the case only because you were departing from within the EU. It would not have worked the other way around (as it's not an EU carrier).


4

Is there a list of all court cases related to EU 261/2004 that would help travelers evaluate their particular scenario? Yes, at least of all court cases in the EU court system. Cases in national courts are not included. It is found by selecting "document information" on the page you linked to in the question. there is a long list under the heading "...


4

If aviation authorities have mandated inspections of all airplanes with a specific engine model, I suspect they may actually have more merit to claim extraordinary circumstances in this case. This brings it closer to "hidden manufacturing defect", which has been ruled to be extraordinary circumstances. The fact that aviation authorities have mandated the ...


4

Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 February 2004 establishing common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding and of cancellation or long delay of flights, and repealing Regulation (EEC) No 295/91 establishes minimum rights for air passengers in case of denied boarding, ...


4

TL;DR You won't get compensation in this particular case. But the airline still has to get you home and care for you. You are not entitled to compensation if the cancellation is cause by "extraordinary circumstances", and bad weather is one of that circumstances. And it is generally enough that the weather (which is outside the airline's control) caused ...


3

You can use the EU261 complaint form to submit a complaint to the relevant National Competent Authority as given from the link at the bottom of the Air Passenger Rights page. Note the following text on the bottom of the 'Instructions' part of the complaint form however: Please note that the competent authorities of Member States cannot in general take ...


3

In my complaints to the The Norwegian Travel Complaint Handling Body, and the EU Online Disputes Resolution, how should I most effectively argue against this logic? I don't see that any logic has been presented. Their letter can be boiled down to two things: (1) The departure was allegedly due to exceptional circumstances. (2) There was a court case that ...


3

To be continuously edited The non-EU/EFTA countries offering EC261 compensation are: Georgia (SOURCE) Moldova (SOURCE) Serbia (SOURCE) Turkey (SOURCE) Ukraine (SOURCE)


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