I have South Korean passport and I have my study visa which will expire on the 19th of September and a permesso di soggiorno which will expire on the 3rd of Sept.

So far from the last day of May (31 may) I am staying in Korea for my vacation but I still need to continue my study at the university in Florence, I am going back to Italy in the last day of August, and will go to France on the 2nd of September to see my grandma (the day before my permesso expires) and will come back to Italy at 11th of September.

I thought there is no problem because I still have a valid study visa. Of course I know that I need to renew my permesso di soggiorno to live in Italy. And the reason I thought there is no problem was that I have been hearing that I can stay in Schengen countries around 90 days without visa. As a traveller. Isn't it true?

  • One of my friend just told me that i will not be allowed to re enter Italy with expired permesso di soggiorno, even though my study visa is still valid.

If I won't be able to enter Italy again, where should I go and what should I do? And generally what is the penalty?

  • At least to make sure about me to stay in Italy, I will bring some documents that I applied to extend my permesso again. Even though I bring some documents (as evidence) to show that I already applied to make a new one, does it matter?
  • 1
    Can your friend cite any evidence to back up the assertion that you cannot enter with a valid visa when you have an expired permesso di soggiorno?
    – phoog
    Jun 12, 2015 at 17:31

1 Answer 1


As a South Korean citizen, you can definitely enter either France or Italy and travel between the two for 90 days after the expiration of both your permit and your student visa so you certainly won't be staying illegally in France or Italy, be subject to removal or anything like that in September/October. For more details on this, see Getting a tourist Schengen visa after working visa (but the same rules apply to student visas).

Furthermore, there are no systematic passport checks between France and Italy so even if you are technically supposed to wait for the renewal for the permit in Italy, I don't think you would generally risk much by crossing that border during that time.

What I don't know is whether this whole visa/permit discrepancy makes any difference and whether the 90-day maximum stay limit runs from September 19 (it would be my guess) or from September 3. But that's moot as far as your trip to France and your return to Italy go.

What could however be important is applying for the renewal before the expiration of the current permit (so between August 31 and September 2?). Absolute worse case scenario if you fail to do would be that you would not be eligible for a permesso renewal application anymore and would be forced to go back to Korea to restart the process from scratch (new visa, etc.)

As long as you have the student visa, it could still be OK but I don't know what the rules around the renewal of a permesso di soggiorno exactly are and I am just speculating here. Questions about that are perhaps best suited for https://expatriates.stackexchange.com/

  • Good answer, but it's missing an important bit: can you transition from a long-term visa to a visa-free stay without leaving the Schengen area? Jun 12, 2015 at 21:08
  • @Gilles Yes, it seems possible, see travel.stackexchange.com/questions/10504/… and in particular Vince's answer. I wasn't sure of it originally but thinking about it, I don't see how this could make a difference.
    – Relaxed
    Jun 12, 2015 at 21:15
  • The Schengen code is quite explicit that days spent in the Schengen area with a long-term visa or permit do not count for the 90/180 rule. I would therefore conclude that the later date is the significant date. And the first day to be counted would actually be the 20th, wouldn't it?
    – phoog
    Jun 12, 2015 at 22:05

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